Interview #4: Council Member Brenda Gadd
CM Gadd represents District 24. We met at Thistle Farms Cafe
Welcome back to Brewing Civic Leadership. I am so grateful to be sharing stories of the very real people who serve our city in leadership roles. This week we hear from someone brand new to Council but certainly not brand new to Nashville, leading or politics. The stories that shape these journeys have been a joy to hear and share. I am excited to bring this one that begins in rural East Tennessee. Cheers!
Me: Why did you choose the Cafe at Thistle Farms?
Brenda: I really wanted to be here. First of all it's in District 24, which is the district I represent. I specifically wanted to be here because of the mission and the advocacy work. Thistle Farms is about changing lives for the better, and not just better, but for someone finding their own calling in life. I think that this place is so healing because of its mission but it is also healing because it brings the community together. I think that should be what we strive to do in the things that we do with our lives. I have most of my meetings here for that reason.
Me: And what did you order?
Brenda: A cup of black coffee - the standard, boring straight to the point and a blueberry muffin. Because I almost went out on the ledge and got a banana muffin, but at the last moment, I said, “No, I have to take my regular blueberry” (that is my fruit for the day).
Me: Who are you when you are not a council member?
Brenda: What I found out this morning, I've known this about myself for a while, I absolutely love jokes and I am the worst joke teller in the world. I like laughing so finding something that cracks me up. Most of the things I do and have done for a long time are board or community or organizations, non-profit organizations and organizations that seek to make a change - Planned Parenthood, Sycamore Institute or Tennessee Equality Project and especially Emerge Tennessee. I've always spent a whole lot of my time doing community work.
I love to hike, I love to be in East Tennessee (which is where I'm from) and to go to the woods and just be outside for hours at a time. Last year, I got away for about a week and that was just so rejuvenating. When I have really special moments, I get to hang out with friends - just hanging out, not plotting or planning or problem solving. Because usually what I want to do is hang out with folks and say, “How do we tackle this problem?” My conversations tend to get there anyways, even if I'm hanging out over a beer or coffee. I'm Like, “oh my god, this is the thing that's bothering me right now: How do we get period products in the schools for young people to have hygiene products? I mean, it's ridiculous that anyone has to miss a class or miss the day for that. I know that there's a larger effort that needs to be done at the state, but what can we do locally?” So then the rest of the day when I'm hanging out with friends it's all I talk about. The only way out is just telling jokes - the joke's aren't bad, but my delivery is bad. The jokes are great. I just can't tell them.
Me: How did you discover you were a leader?
Brenda: I think it is a discovery. I have this false narrative that a leader is someone who makes all the decisions and just plugs away and people automatically follow them. That's not me. I'm never going to be in that traditional role. So the discovery is leaning in and finding out how, “What are the parts of me that I can't get past?” One is the collaboration. One is consensus, really trying to bring folks together for one particular thing. The discovery is who I am and how I lead because I kept trying to conform and it just didn't feel right. It doesn't feel right to just make these decisions in a silo. It has been an interesting transition on the council - the voting part to me is much heavier than I anticipated because of my decision making process on a personal level. There are limitations, but I want to understand different points of view or the problem and then also understand not only where my constituents are but larger stakeholder groups. I never thought about running for office. It was always about who can run for office that I can support to ensure that we reflect our residents in a way that we are being incredibly inclusive and diverse. I never really thought about me personally running or being involved in the community in a way that would benefit me by running.
I think being trained as an attorney has been helpful but also it makes you pause when you're looking at certain language. That is actually an incredible shift for me - going from asking for support as a staffer or lobbyist to decision making. I have found it is a lot more responsibility and I feel a lot more responsibility about that than I expected.
Me: What led you to lead in Metro?
Brenda: It's something I didn't take lightly. There's a reason I have supported people rather than be the person that puts my name on the ballot. Putting one’s name on the ballot, it's scary. You've got a community of folks that you hope you have built relationships with that are authentic. And then you're switching your role and someone's perception of who you are. Especially after you know 20 years of being in this community and not seeking elected office. My role has been very much either supporting or recruiting women to run or to support communities that are typically underrepresented: LGBTQ, people of color, organizations are black led or immigrant led. So it has not been about me.
I think what I've really enjoyed about all the other work I've done is that it has not been centered around me. I do think that the pivot of switching, putting my name on the ballot was uncomfortable because it became about me.
When I started the petition process, I had meet and greet house parties with neighbors. I used that time to actually listen. I'm for fully funding education, I'm for affordable housing, and safe streets, parks, greenways, libraries. These are all really great things to be for. I got people asking me what I would have done on past votes. I find it is incredibly important to be respectful for those who have been serving and made the decisions that they made with the information that they had. Now I'm sitting in that chair and I realize these folks have information that may have given them what they needed to make a decision for the best interest of what they were presented with. That is why I don't fault them over making a decision.
Me: I think it's interesting that you're saying, sitting in that chair doesn't give you clairvoyance in the way that people think that it might?
Brenda: Even though I felt like I was paying attention, all of a sudden, I understand we have a highly engaged district. All of a sudden, I understand from predecessors, you have to start learning how to shut certain things out so you're able to move forward. And to be okay to not be at inbox zero, which is the thing that still gives me a rash.
Me: What about Nashville? Why did you choose to step out in this way here?
Brenda: This is a great question. I hear this from others but I can only speak for myself on this. I am from a really small place called Sunbright Tennessee and there is no industry. It was a huge, huge deal for me to go to college and to realize when I was in junior high or middle school, that's what I wanted to do, is go to college. And my parents had been my grandparents hadn't been so it was kind of a big deal. I remember my dad sitting me down in sixth grade and he's like, “you're a smart girl, you can go to college but I can't pay for it and so, you're going to have to get a scholarship.” And so I just took that on and I did that. It was all focused on what education can do, it's a necessary part of lifting up and out of poverty. It is a pathway for lifting folks out of poverty, it is not the only thing and then there's a lot more barriers: what you're born into, all the other systemic and barriers for black, brown, immigrant, or first generations. All these other things that don't exist for me but that was a major focus of mine. Going through high school and getting into college and then getting to choose which college and then finding the one that's also going to pay for the most and that my parents were probably the most comfortable with - in all of that I found places that my heart space and my like learning kind of matched. That was understanding that the engagement with the world matters and I came from a very insular space where it was our small community. Our small church is the only place that we connect and get to know each other. We helped each other. I always say, “poor people sometimes stay poor because they give so much.” If I could give everything I have, I'd be happy to stay poor. They give a lot more than people in higher bracket income. Even though we give pats on the back to the five thousand dollar donations, it's the people that protect and provide for each other and communities that give the food that they don't have to give.
The things I was learning about the different parts of our economy work or there's ways to solve certain issues. So in college, food insecurity became eye opening. The fact that like growing up, I was on free and reduced lunches and I had to get my card punched. There were different tiers of kids, some kids paid full price and some kids had to get their card punched and there's that visualization of “you're different” and what your status is. There is always a war for the tater tots, but that crosses all economic bounds - everybody wants the tots! I just started connecting that, when I got to college, I started doing economics, social science and political science. I learned these terms and there are reasons that that exists in this part of a very rural area, on the edges of Appalachia. So that's what college did - opening my mind up.
Then I started engaging mostly only on social issues and I wasn't politically or party inclined at all. My folks were always highly civically engaged, voted every time. I never knew who they voted for - they didn't actually talk about politics, it was still kind of a thing we don't talk about. But it was a huge deal, we always went to vote. I would go with them. It was incredible like they took voting as seriously as one should. I knew that aspect of that civil engagement and for some reason, I had this love of government and democracy and the US Constitution and all these things. I was developing through high school and what these ideals are and that's the beautiful thing. I know western civilization has a whole lot of negatives. There are some aspects when it comes to democracy there's some really beautiful ideals that need to be more accessible and strengthened.
So I got involved with a political campaign. I worked for a democratic candidate who was running for governor out of college. I did the grassroots organizing, driving around to 20 different counties and the most rural parts of the state that I hadn't even been to. I was meeting with people and talking about why they should support this person. After that campaign was successful, I decided it was time to go to law school. Then a local person was running for the state senate, another democratic candidate and it was a special election, and he needed someone to run his campaign. I was like, “definitely not me,” but I had someone else call me saying, “you can do this, you can manage this campaign. I've done it. I'll be there with you, every step of the way.” So I managed a special election and we won by 248 votes. It really opened my eyes. I made a deferral for law school after that to be legislative staffer for one year and then came to Nashville.
I came here because of an opportunity that I wouldn't have had anywhere else and I followed that opportunity. And then I found my community. Even though I love my family with every bit of my being. My dad had made this statement, “I don't think you can live here.” That hurt for a while until I realized what he meant is that if you live somewhere, you have to find a community where you live. It's finding a community where you can sit and commune - sometimes it's political or an issue, our passions are going to drive us to combine and to try tackle these issues that we find unacceptable. I came to Nashville because of opportunity and because of the community, and I feel like that is central to what I need to do and deliver back to people: to give opportunities and to provide community for someone else.
Me: What keeps you going?
Brenda: The camaraderie of the council. I'm very intentionally coming into this council office with an intention to learn. I have things I'm very passionate about and I want to solve and be a part of that solving. I also recognize there are folks returning to council and different positions. They have been intentionally working on a couple of issues also. They've been gracious with their time and their leadership and their support. I feel supported by my colleagues who tell me I'm not going to get everything done and to realize that. I'm not alone and that actually gives me hope. The reality of this position is we have full time jobs, we have full-time lives, and this is also integrated into this full-time job and full-time lives.
I have been thoroughly, thoroughly impressed with department staff and department liaisons. I was a liaison for Governor Bredesen’s administration for four years for the department of environment conservation and I was a legislative lobbyist and a legislative liaison. So I know it's a very stressful job. I had 132 people who were only in Nashville about three months of the year. These folks have 40 people over 35 of whom are non-stop day in day out - always something going on.
So I would say the things that keep me going or probably the basic human interactions.
Me: What about your unique leadership is good for Nashville?
Brenda: Some of it I hope is accessibility. I treat my position as that liaison so I'm hopeful that connection and benefit and communication of what is going on in departments. You just don't know until you ask. I do think that a major role that I hope that I provide is access to answers. Another thing I hope I provide are questions and requirements of those entities who look to benefit from Metro government in a monetary fashion. I'm gonna ask them to give more than they take.
I've already had this experience with a couple of folks, they were really pushing and they just assumed I'm gonna agree with a zoning change because they filed their paperwork and they're going to do x, y, and z. And I've got constituents who think because they’re really, really loud that I'm not going to be supportive of certain changes. Neither one of those things is true. I'm not going to be pushed over. That to me has been really critical. Um, and I think people need to know that you've got folks that are going to pause. I think we've demonstrated that as the council in the early days that business as usual with moving through contracts just because someone says it's the end of the year and it's the best deal we're going to get is no longer acceptable. Or source contracts that we don't fully understand and haven't had time to understand - these are no longer acceptable and we're going to pause and take the time and not be rushed. I'm okay with splash back and I think that is important.
Me: What do you wish you knew before you ran?
Brenda: Oh, so many things. I wish I knew more the intricacies of everyday problems and how that's connected to the different departments. I just wish I had a little bit more familiarity but honestly I don't know if you can until you get there. Because most of my work has been done at the state and federal level, understanding that the committee system is completely different. The administration and the mayor does not appoint all the directors. So if you have an administration come in, the changes aren't big and bold like they are on the states side or at the federal level. What you need to do to make change is getting to know these folks who lead departments who are civil servants who are completely committed. We can legislate some change and a lot of that's going to be through budgets and understanding are the overall pressing needs for what we do with what is a overall to limited budget (event though it is a dollar sign with a B) because there's so many funds that are already dedicated.I think it's the budget process that ultimately will be the thing that I wish I had known more. We have had budget chairs and these past few years who are phenomenal and have done this with intention and all the kudos go to them for making more accessible conversation and that will continue with our current budget chair. I'm not saying something hasn't existed, but I would love to see more transparency. Breaking it down so people understand what you really have and making accessible to people understand what are the real budget decisions we have to make.
Me: What would you tell someone who desires to lead in Metro?
Brenda: I tell folks all the time, look at the boards and commissions. I have also learned from Metro Government that some of the most powerful positions are on our boards and on our commissions. I actually find them more powerful than Metro Council. I always tell folks to look at go online, check the boards and commissions. See if there's areas there you want to engage more in or learn more about. There are beautification commissioners, who are appointed by the council members that allow folks in the districts to just start engaging with things that matter in their neighborhood. I think there's ways to engage.
Also getting to know your council member. They always say squeaky will get the grease, the oil, the attention. I would say more than that, It's not just about being squeaky, it's about being thoughtful and just sitting down with coffee and just getting to know someone - just developing a relationship. That's the beautiful thing about Nashville, instead of six degrees away from each other, we're still more like three degrees and it gives me that small town feel that I will love. That hasn't changed even with all the growth. You can access Metro Council from anywhere, from youtube. Sign up for different council members' newsletters.
Ego will get you so far. It might get you the confidence you need to get out of bed in the day but it's really about building the community and that connection so you can sustain and be a part of the community. It is work, it's not just a little lapel pin.
